VB 6 Forever!
Well ... Maybe not forever, but at least for a bit longer.
A guest editorial from Brad Jensen
Brad Jensen responded in a private email to my blog, "Visual Basic: VSLive ... It's Worth Considering" with some reasons why he won't be attending this year. Although these ideas have appeared on this page before, it's worth pointing out to Microsoft that there are still people like Brad who haven't forgotten what they did to VB 6 and the investment of millions of formerly loyal customers. At the very least, it was a fun read!
--------------------
I actually spent a little time inside the VB 2005 IDE last night, modifying a tablet PC program I had rentacoded for speed. I modified it once a year or so ago, then tried to make some changes last night.
First thing I did was try to run it with F5. I put some break points in it, pressed F5, it goes right past the breakpoints?!?
I rightclicked, noticed run to here, set that, it ran to there. Tried to F5 again, goes right past breakpoints! Finally noticed 'build'. Told it to build, then ran it, breakpoints worked. I'll bet Jodie Foster is really impressed!
Conclusion:
Those teenaged mutant ninja C programmers at MS never even ran the VB6 IDE before they wrote the 'VB' .NET one. Not only dissing us, but spaced out and clueless also.
Obviously they never even used the VB language at all before they wrote VB.NET. "I know, we will paste a bunch of VB keywords over our C compiler, that will save us millions!"
VB.NET - Its not a collection of bugs, it's a collection of features.
I have the image of a bunch of c-minus-minus programmers sitting around in a circle on the floor in the lotus position, chanting 'grep','grep','grep'.
When MS went to VB.NET from VB6, they destroyed several billion dollars of customer investment in development. Not to mention their own market goodwill. The message their actions give us are: Don't trust Microsoft as a development partner. They follow software fads and dead end their tool sets leaving developers high and dry. It's as if, after the libraries and our bookshelves were full of books, someone changed the alphabet because they like the shape and names of the new letters better.
I remember when MicroSoft used to crow about the millions and millions of VB (real VB) programmers. And now they can say they have f-ed every one of them at once!
(I think "fubar" was the word I was looking for.)
I blame Bill Gates. He took his eye off the ball.
We will be programming in VB6 for at least the next five to ten years, maybe longer.
Unlike Mr. Gates, we can't go off and abandon our customers and codebase.
--------------------I blame Mr. Gates as well, Brad. He allowed the company to be turned over to the MBA thinking represented by Steve Ballmer.
Hi Dan,
I hope we are able to use VB6 for 5 years or more
its about 8 years now i am using VB6
i like VB.NET but about VB6 everything u need u can find it online very easy cuz its too old programming language not only less than 5 years
do u think when i turn to .NET i will be professional as classic VB ? i don’t think so
Microsoft really needs to get on the ball. Today’s earnings report is a testimony to this need. While the whole “dot net” thing is OK, it has none of the excitement that the VB1 thru 6 series had(has). For me, they killed any potential of excitement when they moved from VB6 to VB.net v1 (or VB”7″). If I knew in late 2004 what I know now, I would have completely abandoned Microsoft technologies for open-source (PHP, Java, etc).
What I did was I stuck with VB6 through the years. I wish I hadnt. Being faced with such a change from VB6 to VB7, I could have, as I said, gone to any other technology. But I didnt and now I dont know “dot net” too well, and I cant find work.
20 months of unemployment and I cant afford that MSDN sub to get the full subscription benefits.. Corporate and even mid-sized help wanted ads ask for experience with stuff that the “express” editions just dont give you.
So here I am. Nearly penniless and jobless with a massive recession looming.
Take my advice, dont stick with VB6 for 5 or 8 or 10 more years people.
Good points. And to add insult to injury, IBM’s earnings, which were released just a few days earlier, were surprisingly good.
I remember back in the glory days of VB when Microsoft took IBM to the cleaners in large measure because IBM was releasing products that were too complex, too buggy, too expensive, too restrictive while Microsoft was releasing Visual Basic compilers that just did what you needed.
Seems like roles have reversed a bit now.
Watch this space. I’m working on something you might really like.
I do remember that. c.1992 I also remember seeing a movie that was made about Microsoft, Apple and IBM (among others) but was focused on Microsoft and Apple and their desire to conquer IBM – “Pirates of Silicon Valley”. There were two lines that stand out for me, to this day, that the Bill Gates character said (and I dont know how much truth there was to any real statements made), but I could be wrong on the references as to where the statements were made:
1) in reference to IBM allowing Microsoft to license DOS to anyone they chose (I believe it was that), Ballmer says something like “I cant believe how easy it was to sell them DOS, we have nothing!” and Gates’ reply? “Thats the problem with large companies. They get so big that that cant see past themselves and it fools them into thinking they can do stuff that they really shouldnt..”
2) when the Microsoft clan was visiting the Apple folks after it was learned that Apple had aquired the GUI from Xerox labs and the Microsoft people wanted to see the Mac prototypes, and were refused. As they were walking out into the parking lot to go back to Seattle, Gates lagging behind catches up with Ballmer and crew saying “We got it, they’re sending up some prototypes so we can play with them” and Ballmer basically jumped for joy saying that they were giving away , cant remember.. But I do remember Gates’ statement to that, “…if they’re not careful, they’ll wreck the place”
Again, I dont know if the wording is exact or if these are even true statements BUT, if they are, then its now Microsoft who is the “IBM” that others are going to be saying “if they’re not careful, they’ll gonna wreck the place” and being “too big, that it clouds their decision making abilities”.
Right now, as I said previously, I am at a crossroads. I am out of work, I am not up to speed on new stuff. I cant afford to get up to speed to the degree that hiring organizations want – based on their job listings, because I cant afford many thousands of dollars for a MSDN subscription when I have credit card bills galore and food to put on the table with the little left in my savings account and 401k.
Whats my alternative, my plan-b? Why not look into the free, open-source stuff? I see just as many job listings for people who know PHP or Java as I see C# or VB.net. If Microsoft cares about its developer community, it would reduce the price of that MSDN so that even more folks could afford it and write software for their platforms with it.
It would also get out of the business of competing with their own developers (me, for example). If I wanted to write a CRM and sell it to a client, I cant compete against Microsoft selling their CRM via their “partner” program and against their sales and marketing machine. They’re choking people out.
Its really time for Microsoft to decide who they want to be: IBM of the late 80’s – early 90’s or the Microsoft of the 80’s and early 90’s. The Microsoft of today is really too bloated and their ideas are very clouded by that bloat.
Gates and Ballmer probably don’t remember exactly what they said, but to my knowledge, the scenes you described are probably as accurate as we know today.
Back then, Ballmer was a great partner to Gates because the challenges were different and Gates was making the critical policy decisions. Ballmer added that merciless MBA aggression that a small, struggling company needs. But Ballmer’s skills don’t translate well to the challenges of running a multi-billion dollar world corporation. To be fair, maybe nobody could do it. There are certainly a lot of people who have failed. (Carly Fiorina at HP, most recently. But at least the Board of Directors had the spine to throw her out.)
Have you read my review of “In Search of Stupidity”?
As far as VB 6 versus VB.NET goes, I can see the point of view of the VB 6′ers very well and I totally agree that Microsoft was stupid and blind to throw them to the wolves.
But at the same time, .NET is an amazing advance in software technology. There is no question that it’s a quantum leap that needed to happen. (I just think VB 6′ers should have been allowed to move to .NET on the merits of .NET, not forced to go at the point of a gun.)
With that said, VB.NET Express is free, downloadable, and really can do nearly everything that Visual Studio can do. Speaking as someone who has done a lot of hiring and firing in my career, I would not reject a candidate just because there was no Visual Studio Team System experience. You can build a very sophisticated database and web enabled system on a single computer with completely free products. All that is lacking is the motivation to do it. That’s what I would look for. (In real projects, maintenance of the overarching project files and databases is done by specialists anyway.)
So … since you seem to have the time to do it … boot yourself up and build a system. If you have a computer now, it wouldn’t cost you a dime.
You make some very good points. I will get a hold of the 2008 Express versions and get crackin’ I did download and futz around with the 2005 Express versions a few years back and I recall that it did have some limitations.. I think it was in the database connectivity areas where I couldnt connect to a SQL Server 2000 DB, I could only connect to an Express version of SQL 2005 via a the file system?
At that time I was very busy with VB6 work, (classic) ASP work, IIS, etc and so I didnt care too much. Maybe this has changed? I also remember something about SSIS not being accessible via the Express version of SQL 2005. Having done DTS work in my sleep practically, I was hoping to get involved with SSIS but couldnt on the Express version. Someone told me the trial version of SQL 2008 has SSIS enabled but the trial expires in 120 days.
in any case, I will get it all downloaded and I will convert (rewrite from scratch) a system I had written c.2002 in VB6 with SQL Server 2000 as its back-end. I’ve got VMWare going and will create a VM for this and try to come up to speed.
Thanks for the kind words and support!
Unfortunately, SSIS does not come with the Express editions. They’ve got to leave something out or nobody would pay for anything. This table might be of use to you in deciding what to do:
http://www.microsoft.com/Sqlserver/2005/en/us/compare-features.aspx
However ….
My featured newsletter article this week is about a package developed by a programmer in Germany to get around Microsoft. Develop your own SSIS system and stick it to the man!
“They’ve got to leave something out or nobody would pay for anything.”
I agree. I would do similar with a product for sale. However, it was a bit of a shock to find that the almost stand-alone DTS was revamped and cut off from the lower-end product line.
I’ve considered writing a “SSIS Express” product to complement the SQL 2005 Express download, when I discovered it was missing SSIS.. Maybe I will revisit that idea.
I have read your piece on that Jabaco product – its quite interesting!
Dan,
Right on! Please send a copy to Balmer and staff. But what you so well describe is only symptomatic of MS’s policies that favor change and internal geekmic suggestions more than customers (programmers and otherwise) and fidelity to honest practices.
I wonder if MS has a corporate prostate problem? – Uncontrolable urge for frequent change. Lack of capacity to hold a full load. Incountinence.
Dave
It get’s worse. Check out my blogs from VSLive. Having completely changed the underlying programming language architecture, now they’re going to completely change the way we code the user interface.
But … I gotta say … if you can stand to make the change, the new world is SOOOO much better.